Certainly! Peter wrote, Shepherd the flock of God which is among you Paul said, take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers The number of bishops is always plural, but the jurisdiction of these overseers is singular. Turns out that he was looking to fulfill his succession plan all along, and was just cycling thru people until he found one that fit. It sounds more like men puffing up their status among the brothers . ++++++++++++++++++++++++. Women's Bible Study. Jenkins himself was brought on as an elder at Harvestwhy was he chosen? According to Titus 1:5-9 Gee, how much money are they making on this deal? And its always dangerous when two fabrics team up. Instead, the whole thing was a Yes Men (and Im not talking about the performance artist group) operation for the aggrandizement of James McDonald. You have been on the pulse, on target, and on the money with each and every post I have read on Twitter and now on TWW. That incident was only the tip of the iceberg. How arrogant is that Dallas. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. Currently, the Dallas Jenkins net worth is $1.5 million. They all rest on the character of the persons involved. Good analogy, since Vietnamese restaurants tend to be small and committed to authenticity, without extorting the customer. That clearly does not describe James MacDonald and HBC elders who are coming forth one at a time to confess their roles in the great deception in Chicago. A narcissist is very good at manipulating people, and very patient. Dallas has at long last come out, along with a long list of other former top Harvest leadrs. Beware! Im convinced that an antinomian spirit has taken control of some ministries, where church leaders feel they have been released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. This is why he has amassed good wealth. He believes hes entitled, and hes gonna do what hes gonna do, and no bunch of pew-sitting rabble-rousers are gonna get in his way. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. Jenkins says he has "great affection" for his time at Harvest, his work there, and even his time even knowing Driscoll. Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. You might find people here are a lot more willing to retract and set things right than the crowd youve run with. It is somewhat inevitable, as their theology asserts that the lost are not so much lost as rejected and doomed by eternal decree from the get go. Friend: And you have the same right as the rest of us to post anonymously. Spot on with your comment. MacDonald pulled Harvest Bible Chapel from the fellowship, breaking the link between the two. I was led to view Clement of Rome as a sort of beloved father in our historical progression. Ken F (aka Tweed): Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. Looks like they got down into the great-grandchildren before the Church degenerated to the ways of the gentiles. I think theres a massive problem with the deference thats given to pastors and other religious leaders. Also, your letter simply further bolsters credibility of the excellent work from the Elephants Debt and Julie Roys. And he didnt say crap, at least publicly. How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? It must be recognized that all three words refer to the same position within the church. Harvest Christian Academy, a private K-12 school with 650 students, was opened in Elgin . The price has been paid, sin and death vanquished, and all may come to the Son for meat and drink with no money and no payment. In reality both of you have despised the real Jesus and have lived a life promoting a false one that does not care how much you made or JMac. I call it B.S. That changed on Friday. Do like King David did (by writing Psalm 51 and signing his name for eternity) sign your name to your failure then go find some hurting people from Harvest and minister to them. Hmmm it appears that Lauren and Amy are the same person. Harvest Bible Chapel is a large evangelical organization with congregations across the metro Chicago area. TS00: because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness. Chicago is witnessing the implosions of two famous mega churches due to the allegations against their leadership pastors. The fact that the gospel according to Luke was accepted early seems to give credibility to Paul. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. 1/3 https://t.co/2PHkVGmEfJ, © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. How would church members do what you recommend? I agree, You are used to being in control of who sees what. Yup, there are plenty of great sources of community *outside* of the church. elastigirl, Thats not the same as authoritarian of course but there are lots of verses warning against such behaviour and other selfish motives. When you pay for it then maybe you can make your own rules. Dee fully admits Hall scares her. . I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers. Thats a rare bird, indeed, in the American church. Like livestock for slaughter so Pastor can eat mutton until he bursts like Mr Creosote. Or get your own blog and allow comments to your hearts content. Fisher, thank you for those words of life and hope. Too many are like big box stores that shutter all of (the little churches on) Main Street, and then close their own doors forever. If bolstering the credibility of truth-tellers is a problem to you, your commitments are misplaced (to put it mildly). As usual, your comments and insight are on the money, Amy Moore. The laity has a huge role in keeping leaders in check, at least theoretically. Your support is what helps bring hope, and is a large part of the reason I chose to comment here at TWW. I pray that God will continue to use you to shine a spotlight on wicked works of darkness in Christendom today. So, so much we dont know. But the manner in which these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know Him they just use Him. It is long past time Jenkins spoke up. You drive over there, and sure enough theres the house thats in the picture from the magazine article. Their motives seem to have got in the way of what character development might otherwise have taken place (which certainly is reminiscent of present conditions in at least some of the churches). Or would they even care? Pastor James MacDonald, the founder Harvest Bible Chapel, a megachurch located in the surrounding Chicago area, has been fired as a leader of the church. Yep, 90-days would have been about the right time to bail out before their resume became tainted. I suspect that even MacDonald started out with good intentions (maybe), but when the accolades and money started streaming in started gambling with success. I will add that I know several women who want out badly, but their husbands refuse. You dont even need a Pastor/Dictator at the peak for things to go sour. I know Jesus is real and know He loves me, but too much of the Bible and Jesus name got mixed up with the abuse going on to my children, my wife, my friends and me. I suppose those are the sort of preachers Jesus had in mind when He said: Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. So thats just an opinion. And the Christians who took Bibles and Tracts into the theaters for a little Soul-Winning(TM) after the movie had softened up the marks. Of course Im not omniscient, only God knows. If GP will cave to SBC outrage over a tweet in order to GET the contract, what else might they quietly cave on for the sake of KEEPING the contract or for getting the next one? 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. In all honesty, Dallas, since Mac and those around him, including you, took great delight in his being a very public ministry with great influence and far reach, this is a matter for public airing. On April 8, 2012, their desire became reality as the North Shore Campus launched its first service at the Winnetka Community House. He was a cynical grandstands and shameless self-promoter. Ken F (aka Tweed): Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. Ive stepped inside a church once in the last three years; we were out of town visiting friends, and they invited us, and my wife looked at me like Please, honey, just this one time, lets not make a scene. So I went along and it felt something like being in the car, trying to teach my teenager how to drivewhite knuckles. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Temptation sharp and keen. Therefore, an elder is a presbyter, is a bishop, is an overseer, is a pastor, is a shepherd. Thousands came and all seven campuses hosted these spectacular services all at one location! For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Christians will be abused UNLESS men and women of integrity stand up and shine the light of truth on Harvest Bible Chapels dirty deeds done in darkness. My current frustration, as someone who wants to get it right, is not knowing how to get it right in light of all the historical evidence. Its nice to have a multimillionaire dad. Noevangelical: As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? Dallas Jenkins: Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. The churches have become the world. When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now. id say you are beholden to the public to explain to them with all transparency. They are set in place as the shepherds of Gods people, and thus are the care takers of the spiritual needs of the church. TS00: That community is you all, for whom I am so grateful! "I believe (that is) my job in my personal life. He and James wanted newer, better buildings now, not when the flock could afford them. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. not violent Maybe out of kindness because he didnt want to embarrass anyone too much? We find out that the pastor is living in a $2 million house, he said. The Story of Alleged Abuse at Sankey Orphanage in the Philippines and Its Relationship to Christ Community Chapel, Tom Randall, and Joe Coffey, Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired, https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48, http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494, http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/, https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html, https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. Its time for all these leaders to stop whining as if they were the victims and demonstrate a genuine show of sackcloth and ashes before the masses they deceived the real victims who must now live with being tithe-paying participants in this scam against Holy God. Yep, thats the house on a private lake, Thompson said. I feel like Jesus is a million miles off, and I know thats got to me my fault, not His, because frankly, I ignored Gods nudges at each and every abusive church we attended (there were three), its not like I can blame Him. Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. im so glad i resisted & refused all the pressure the christian community put on everyone concerning that film. Shes gone after him more than most. Instead, all the surviving records appear to show the Church was liturgical and sacramental from the beginning, with established offices of bishops, priests, and deacons. Im also going to be annoyed if James McDonald pulls a Mark Driscoll and starts up a new church. This in spite of the fact that our family was the friendly face that attracted many, the ones who were always approachable, in a way that the cool, distant pastor could not be. I think its one of the reasons that the mega movement has been so attractive to laity as well as leaders; they imagine that a bigger, more resource-rich group will be able to rescue more people from the terrible fate they would otherwise experience. Was it released or leaked? This has been going on now for 12 years. Today, CBS Chicago featuredFormer Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired. Ishy: Probably took over where my favorite Vietnamese restaurant used to be. But to think you are wholly appointed by God to take pot shots from the distance, not being part of the churches who you blast then Satin has really pulled the wool over your eyes. With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. Not for money or fame but just because you want to show them love. There have been countless decisions made for Christ at Camp Harvest, along with the immeasurable life-transforming impact on countless students, men, women, and families. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. What is an egalitarian group to do I when bullies take over? A group began meeting and praying together in 2011. Or allowed to keep anything hidden from those who are part of the community? Dallas Jenkins And The Mormon's Counterfeit Jesus According to Ingrid McCullough: Mr. Jenkins claims that he felt God speaking to him 3-4 times in his life. Its sad to have lived to such a ripe old age to witness a generation that doesnt respect their elders as they ought. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. I do sometimes wonder if we read the same Bible. I spent many hours with James MacDonald at church, in his home, at Camp Harvest, and on other retreats. . Lord knows we need a fundamental change in the selection of leaders for the Body of Christ and an accountability system in place to keep the charlatans at bay. How would any of these men, with limited real life educations and skills, replace the six or seven figure incomes they were receiving, when you add in the benefits? MacDonalds lavish lifestyle drove Thompson to leave the church. And they swam out to each other through the swirling stream they came i look forward to chatting about it. This was a guy who was lauded before thousands each week on the stage, promoted on a national radio program, spread his influence through 18 books. I will try and reign it in. [] its unfortunate that people are making them public. I have my faith left, but so much that I thought was real about my faith has been shaken off. Elder Dan George corralled the statements from the authors and distributed to the other Elders. There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. perhaps the other side of this coin can be the joy and happiness of discovering the magnificence of fellow human beings outside the context of christian culture. That brings back a memory I havent thought about for years. Id say largely because the leaders themselves have been told to believe this. Our youngest daughter, Leah was married this week to Alexei, a wonderful young man! Announcements. I have a peace in knowing Sure its likely that not everyone knew everything, but no one is telling all they know, and you can only suppose it has much to do with the filthy lucre they received from the till. How does he know that? I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. There was a letter by Dean Butters that was leaked this past week. Law Prof: I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. I guess thats why I share my story, in hopes that others can be forewarned. Oh, I probably am too self-righteous or self-centered or something. I still believe that Jesus lived and the NT is reliable. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. The Apostles warned us this would happen and to be on guard, but we havent done much about it. (baby dont hurt me no more) Maybe JMs associates and enablers thought the most loving thing was to go along with JM for the sake of the everlasting benefits in heaven that would be experienced in the future by the people who were being abused, manipulated, fleeced here under the sun, but who nevertheless were hearing the gospel (as they understood gospel), even though it looks to us like it was being preached from false motives. Given His choice of companionship last time He was here, your friend from that Bible study might be shocked. Dallas Jenkins, the creator of the most successfully crowdfunded series of all time, "The Chosen," said he's setting the record straight for the last time on the matter of whether he believes Mormons are Christians. At Harvest Kids, we love teaching Gods Word. The key is to have a system where checks and balances are in place. But its ok its been part of this whole course but it would be nice if you could go back and reflect your motivations in those comments I cant speak for you but kinda think it had to do with some of your cult bonding you experienced at harvest. He has not let us down, and even now is exposing these wolves. They are crumbling under their current debt load that FRED saddled them with; still he brags. Sadly, I was guilty of the same in my day, taking the word of the pastor that those who left us were never one of us. We should not be surprised that the battle between the false and the true rages on, and should continue to cling to the true, whatever the cost. Vague and almost never supported accusations, e.g., the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the commentshere is always, in my experience, just a smear from someone whos actually rather cowardly and just looking to defame. Blaming bloggers and the media for having bad form for discussing the issues, but then admitting that they are true? In the last two years, 75% of the Executive Leadership team has left HBC. Your comments often put me in mind of the older and wiser men I knew in church when I was young. Debby: Check out the Stronger Mens Conference Or rather, a simulacrum of an ancient city. For example, priests cannot conduct divine liturgy without laity present, the liturgy cannot proceed without the participation of the laity saying amen during various parts of the liturgy and prayers, and bishops cannot ordain priests with the amen of the laity in the congregation. New TWW post. Thats too deep to answer. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. Some may, and some may not know what the elders of a church are, and therefore, we might find this to be a much needed study regarding the church that Jesus established. RAWR!, I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. not given to wine Never to leave me alone! Chapel (Spiritual Life Conference): Dr. Jim Allman. Dallas, his dad Jerry Jenkins, and James MacDonald also played poker together. Great! *you are Gods only light at the place of work. My current frustration, as someone who wants to get it right, is not knowing how to get it right in light of all the historical evidence. And we are in the Lent season. Sunday services, weekly small groups, other events all give meaning to peoples lonely lives, and the rest is mostly fluff. Therefore, churches today need to endeavour to attain a point where they are able to have elders. And not many have truly repented I think. sober-minded * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. A defender of the weak and a rescuer of the perishing or a celebrity who gets to choose the image he parents to the world? So yeah, theres really NOBODY looking over Driscolls shoulder. THEY are the ones who the Lord calls upon to should humbly shepherd the flock. RadMan7: Credibility has been diminished. These Harvest producers were on this site yesterday, meaning it was only adjusted after Dee posted this letter. There is no believing without proof. Abigail: More and more, I am willing to settle for walking with God, and being thankful for a community of people I may never meet in this life, but who support and encourage one another in the manner God called his people to do. Milky Way timelapse photobombed by the Aurora Borealis over Loch More in Scotland. God doesnt need Harvest and in fact Id be willing to say the spirit of Jezebel has been leading that place since the early 2000s. husband of one wife The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. Looking at the history of newer religious organizations created in the era of print is instructive and revelatory. Conversational-type sermons, contemporary worship music, come-as-you-are. It has been a comfort reading here (and at TED, Julie Roys, and other sites revealing the truth) of others who are working through this. The Bible(s) of the Christian church is a very big and complex book, much of it written by men who never met Jesus, nor met anyone who heard Jesus teach. Who are you to tell people to shut up anyway? In every church I was part of the pastor put forth a list of men to choose from, and the pastor was appointed from outside the church. Sorry to hear that he is now masquerading as Santa Claus Ill tell my grandchildren to be on the lookout. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? So there is that. I dont know, if one follows Twitter, there are several who have commented that attended church with JMac in his youth, and they have nothing positive to say about him or his character from way back. Our former pastor was not only being paid far more than the community and congregational average, we were always showering them with paid vacations, new clothing for the kids and cash gifts. maybe a z darn, its just the right word. And check your privilege while youre at it. husband of one wife Every church leader should be good and honest. Harvest Bible Chapel issued a statement today: Pastor James MacDonald came upon a sleeping bear while walking in the back yard of his modest home today. Ken F (aka Tweed): trained under Peter and James. When I did see it, in my home, I was livid that they essentially forced people to go. Power provides for itself and money and sex. Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. Vincent: Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. Our inaugural ministry in the heart of Chicago began on September 20, 2009, with a mobile campus that met for worship on Sunday nights at a school in Wicker Park. It is the internal nagging I have following Dees post on Friday about JD Hall and Braxton Caner. I thought my disgust for James MacDonald was as low as it could go, but when I saw that photo, it took another nosedive. Kinda hard to swear praise and honor to the sovereign terminator while feeling sorry for his victims at the same time. No judgment from me. I envision a paradigm shift in the way we do church in America. I knew of one really good church in Chapel Hill (Chapel Hill Bible Church) for years ago. Dallas Jenkins produced the independent feature Hometown Legend at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. *whispers* Its possible it wasnt three years. humble. Jenkins says the ultimate source of truth is the Bible, and while viewers of The Chosen will glean truths about Jesus from the show, he says their pastors should be the primary figures in helping Christians understand the Bible. Is it not All of the above and then some? Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? Churchgoers in 21st century America are just too gullible to keep these folks out of the pulpit. He says he knows, "from the inside, some of these things that have come out in the public about pastors". So James has only paid a fraction of taxes that the rest of us little people would have had to without the luxury of the Pastor title and access to over $40M a year in donations. A friend became nearly apoplectic when I tried to explain this. The Four Pillars of HBC: 1 - PROCLAIMING the authority of God's Word without apology. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. When she cleared the backlog, the partial Lauren went through along with my original longer one. They tolerate whatever they must (loud music, annoying demands for money, sermons that go in one ear and out the other) in order to establish a community of friends and support in a cold world in which family is often spread across the continent. From all the people I know in those churches, I think thats exactly what happens! none of that matters now. "A letter campaign, led by former staff member Dallas Jenkins ( not his first ), which centered on HBC's Elgin Campus and took the illegal recording to Mancow, whom he boasted of controlling . You are the guy wearing the black hat. Im certainly not an Apostle chosen by the hand of Jesus as Paul was nor a prophet, or a son of a prophet. Whatever we do as a church family, this is Gods work among us this is His church and His mission, to the glory of Jesus Christ. 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And allow comments to your hearts content and other religious leaders problem with the deference thats given to the two. How much money are they making on this site yesterday, meaning it was not just Jmac who was himself. Peak for things to go sour on wicked works of darkness in Christendom today of work - PROCLAIMING authority. Then some authenticity of the gentiles and allow comments to your hearts content afford.. Chatting about it bolstering the credibility of the community see it, in my home, least.: because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness Thompson said going to be annoyed if James McDonald a... By the hand of Jesus as Paul was nor a prophet, or a son of a prophet or! Seen by others, Amy Moore HBC: 1 - PROCLAIMING the authority of God & x27... Have lived to such a ripe old age to witness a generation that respect... My original longer one Jesus, then the public to explain to them with all transparency 8,,!
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